Jack, ever heard of Esav sonei Yakov? Don’t kid yourself. Of course they all want us dead. Maybe it’s only Moslems, I’ll give you that, but they do want us dead. I can promise you that. If they don’t, then why are all the schools in the Arab countries still teaching their children that Israel needs to be destroyed? Why do they still have rallies where they strap on suicide belts and march around in them? Now, I know you can say it’s only some of them, but why don’t the others try to stop them? Because they agree, that’s why. They want us dead just as much, but they have to keep up appearences, show that are trying to do something, even though they really don’t.

The full expression is “halacha he be’yedua Eisav sonei l’Yaakov,” “it’s a well-known fact that Eisav hates Yaakov.”

This can either mean the PERSON Eisav and the PERSON Yaakov or it can mean the NATIONS descended from them (Edom and Yisroel, respectively).

HOWEVER...Eisav (Edom) is ROME! Even in its broadest sense, that’s the West! The East (Arabs) is Yishmael! They are NOT descendants of Eisav!  There’s absolutely NO WAY this Gemara in Yoma (42b) refers to Arabs!  (And when Rashi quotes it in parshas VaYishlach - Ber. 33:4, he’s only applying it to the PERSON of Eisav!)

Ok Jack, but what about the other stuff I said?

I don’t deny that there’s plenty of hate and that terror is real and that certain cultures teach their children to perpetuate the violence and destruction. I just think that the stereotype that “all Arabs” want to kill Jews is as inaccurate as any stereotype about “all Jews.” Do you think a Satmar Chasid and a Reform Jew are both part of some secretive cabal? Of course not! Similarly, I believe that Arabs come in all stripes. (Plenty of Iraqis cheered the US troops and support democracy, for example.) Sure, there are fundamentalist extremists. I never said otherwise. I just don’t think that “all Jews” or “all Arabs” or “all blacks” or “all Japanese” or “all ANYBODY” march in ideological lockstep.

hi jack!

um what you said about not all arabs hating us? that is definitely true, and while it is also true that not all muslims want to kill us either, i’m sure not left confident that the average muslim or arab on the street doesnt want to kill me- either because i’m a jew or because i’m american. it’s all great to be nice and politically correct, but the bottom line is, do you trust them?

i dont.

It’s funny, because I am the LEAST politically correct person I know! I don’t say that I don’t believe they all want to kill us to be PC, but because I really believe it. I see all these Arab girls walking to my local public high school in the morning and they probably think that *I* want to kill them (but I don’t!).

BUT...if a person or place makes you uncomfortable, don’t put yourself in such a position. That’s just common sense. Black, white, Latino, Jew or Arab, if someone or something makes you feel antsy, follow your gut feeling. Better safe than sorry, PC or not.

Assuming that we all are trusting of the source from which we heard the details of what Rabbi Kaduri said, then I don’t see why we can’t trust Rabbi Kaduri… He’s a holy man that follows the Torah.
I think that the reason why no mainstream orthodox rabbonim are coming out and supporting Rabbi Kaduri’s words is because they are all obsessing about the tabboo of kabbalah, but you know what? kabbalah is also part of the Torah and there are right ways to use it. Rabbi kaduri follows the Torah and is using the Kabbalah part of the Torah properly as well..... So in general I follow mainstream orthodox rabbis but in this case i am starting to think that mainstream orthodox rabbonim are not correct.

The fact that not every Rabbi is shooing their congregants off to Israel is not out of disrespect for kabbalah in general or Rabbi Kaduri in particular, G-d forbid. It’s because (a) Rabbi Kaduri is a human and humans, even great ones, are fallible, especially when it comes to the future and (b) kabbalah (mysticism) is not halacha (Jewish law) and kabbalistic reasons are not halachically binding.

I’ll give you an example, but it’s only an analogy. If your Rabbi said not to eat in a particular restaurant because it’s not reliably kosher, that’s a matter of halacha. You should definitely listen.

But what if your Rabbi said that he heard the housing market was booming in Hawaii and that you should move there? Would you pack up and go? What if he told you to major in Anthropology? Would you listen? What if it wasn’t your shul Rabbi, but a Rosh Yeshiva? A Chasidic Rebbe? A m’kubal?

Those are not issues of halacha, but aitzah tova, good advice. You can certainly choose to rely on your Rabbi’s insight, but it’s not binding in the same way as “don’t eat in that restaurant.”

There are halachically compelling reasons to make aliyah, but threat of impending natural disasters isn’t one of them. Rabbi Kaduri predicted that they were coming and an “aitzah tova” in response is to go to Israel. I don’t think it’s any more or less of an halachic imperative than making aliyah already was. (For more info on the mitzva of aliya, click on http://www.ou.org/ncsy/projects/zpages/aliyah.htm)

i agree with jack on most of what he had to say, with the exception that i think im more unPC then he is.  The fact is that saying “all arabs want to kill the jews” is a blanket statement that is for sure not true.  Remember when “all jews baked christian babies blood into matzah” was that true? No. Yet people believed it and it led to many a pogrom.  The problem with the world today is that people atribute the acts of a group of people from one sect to the entire sect.  Some Americans have killed innocent people, does that mean we all do? Some Jews have done the same, does that make us all murderers?  Everyone has to realize that just because some people behave a certain way, it doesnt make the whole group guilty.

Rabbi - 10 October 2005 01:48 PM

Similarly, the Ramban said the Moshiach’s arrival was imminent. (Define “imminent.")

NYNY, how can you compare the Arabs to the blood libels? By the blood libels, the entire thing was made up just to give a reason to kill Jews. By the Arabs, there is evidence! They openly admit to killing Jews! Now, while not all Arabs are terrorists (according to some people), and some may not have the nerve to go kill people, that doens’t mean they don’t want it done. I would love to kill some arabs. I just don’t have the nerve to get up and do it. Does that mean that when I hear an arab got killed I don’t enjoy it? Of course I do. Same thing by them, when they hear about Jews being killed, they love every second of it.

You (and many other Jews) get a kick out of hearing that Arabs are dead.
I (and many other Jews) do not.
Some Arabs get a kick out of hearing that Jews are dead. Some do not.

Isnt it forbidden to predict the future and then act on that Prediction?
in Perek Yud Teis, Passuk Kof zayin Parshas Kedoshim Sefer Vayikra, it says “v’lo Saoneinu” which means “do not believe in lucky times” Rashi explains that this forbids you to say a day or a time is auspicious for so and so to do something.  but this day is auspicious for so and so to avoid doing something. According to the Sefer HaMitzvos Hakatzer, it is one of the negative commandments not to “give seasons and times, saying ‘That certainperiod or this certain month is good (auspicious) to do this,’ or the opposite[that it is not good] - sefer hamitzvos hakatzer by the Chofetz Chaim.
Now I am sure that rabbi Kaduri knows all of this, and he would not have said what he did without being sure that it was allowed. after all, tzaddikim do weigh their words much more carefully average people like me. I was just wondering how it was permitted.

I don’t think that’s what Rabbi Kaduri did at all. If I hear a weather report that says it will rain on Friday, I’m going to bring an umbrella. Whether it rains or not, I don’t believe that’s a violation of lo s’oneinu. (You’re off by one pasuk, by the way. It’s Vayikra 19: 26, not 19:27.) That pasuk is referring to pure superstition, such as “It’s unlucky to start a journey on Thursdays.” But if somebody says “an earthquake is expected, so get out of town!” or “The Huns are marching this way - they’ll get here by Tuesday, so run away!” - well, those are just examples of reallly good advice. Right or wrong, Rabbi Kaduri has reason to believe that disaster is coming and he’s giving equally good advice.

Most Chassidim would follow any and all advice from their Rebbe. It is a fundamental part of the Rebbe-Chasid relationship. REBBE stands for Rosh Bene Yisrael, Head of Israel. As Chassidus explains, the Rebbe has a piece of every soul in his generation. This allows him to have insight into everyone’s souls.