yeah… tho if your planning on driving in Europe anytime soon… learn stick cuz i dont think they have automatic. Tho to be honest, i think most of the population in North America uses automatic so i dont see the point in using stick… unless you REALLY want to and then well have fun.
Back to music during sefira. If you want to talk about driving and drivers ed, create its own topic. Now back to music during sefira...... Where does it come about that some people say it is okay to listen to prerecorded music during sefira? Just out of curiosity. I am not asking any rabbi to paskin.
The Shulchan Aruch (Siman 293) doesn’t actually say straight out that listening to music is forbidden. The Shulchan Aruch only forbids getting married during sefira. The Mishna Berura says that the real problem with getting married during sefira is the fact that there are
rikudin and mecholos (different types of dancing) which occur at weddings. So if you look strictly at the prohibition in the text of the Shulchan Aruch itself, it would seem that the most lenient approach is correct, namely that only live music that involves dancing, like the kind at weddings, is prohibited.
However, it should be noted, that it is possible that this prohibition is closely related to the prohibition of listening to music zecher lechurban in general, and perhaps the reason why the Mishna Berura only mentioned “wedding” music is because maybe he held that music for a non-mitzva purpose was forbidden anyway. The topic needs a little further investigating, methinks.
Tjeshurun-can I please have your proof?
I know that the most prevalent minchag is to not listen to any instrumental music during sefira, depending on which half you hold. Some people hold from the start of sefira until lag bomer and others hold from Rosh Chodesh till Shavuot. Then there are some people who hold that you cannot listen to any prerecorded music during sefira while others say it is okay. But I know tha accapela is ok, or else we wouldnt be able to sing zmirot. But what are the sources for all of this. Before I start to give wrong information, I would like to turn this over to a Rabbi. Jack, I hope it is ok with you to take it from here.
People A say, “When Chazal proscribed music, all they had was live music. Live music is a big deal - you need a band, etc. Our radios and iPods are so commonplace, they don’t bring us the same kind of simcha as a concert. They’re just background noise - clearly not what the Rabbis meant.”
People B say, “They said music. Music is music. The source of the music doesn’t matter.” This is different from, say, hearing a shofar on a tape (which doesn’t work) because that requires an actual shofar. But music is music, even if the band went home and left you a CD.
That’s the crux of the difference of opinion. (In my opinion, if being without your iPod for a few weeks makes you absolutely nuts, you’re kind of proving opinion B’s point.)
As noted, a capella is okay (singing is not, in and of itself, music) but I, personally, find these a capella CDs people sell for sefira to be unseemly.
But I know tha accapela is ok, or else we wouldnt be able to sing zmirot. .
It is ok, but I’m not sure if that’s a proof, because if you’re referring to zmiros on shabbos, i’d assume that that would fall under no aveilus on shabbos...so let’s say it were muttar to play an instrument on shabbos, i’d venture to say that it would be muttar to do so during sefira!
Personally, I find this distinction between acappela and instrumental music to be difficult. Music is basically defined as “a series of notes which is pleasing to the human ear.” A human voice box is just as capable of performing this function as a guitar or a piano. If you want to say that halacha only prohibits musical instruments, fine. But a tape recorder or CD player isn’t a musical instrument either. The sounds that come out of a CD player are electronically reproduced sounds, regardless of whether it was originally an instrument or a human voicebox that made the sound. Thererefore, there should logically be no difference whether the recorded music is instrumental or not.
I think the fact that it’s different is inherent in that there’s a special term for it - “a capella.” There’s no special term for flute music or guitar music or piano music. There *is* a special term for “voice music” because it *is* different!
Rabbi, with all due respect, that’s absurd. Having a special name doesn’t classify something as “music” or “not music.” A name is just a name. It is still qualitatively music. A quartette is a group of four intstruments playing together. Does that mean it’s not music, because it’s called a “quartet?”
I didn’t say having a special name makes it “music” or “not music,” I said the fact that we give it another name shows that we consider it a separate thing. If you went to see The Rolling Stones or Brittany Spears or whomever in concert and they only sang a capella, you’d probably ask for your money back. “But it’s music!” they reply. Ah, but it’s not the same thing.
The fact that we give it a different name is the the halachic basis of it being different, just an easy to demonstrate way of showingthat they *are* different.
not to mention that even tho some ppl sing well other can skreech and you would not want to hear them sing whether or not you are able to. with instrumental music anyone can do more or less well to a certain point with enough practice… but if you dont have a singing voice i dont care how much you practice you will still sound like nail down a chalkboard.
This wasnt to burst anyones bubble but its true from a music standpoint.
Quality of the performance isn’t really the issue. I’d get more simcha from someone who sings well than who plays poorly. (Similarly, kol isha is a problem for a man, even if the woman sings poorly. Cheeseburgers are treif, even when prepared by a lousy cook.)
Still, why is there a difference between acappella and other music? I’ve just heard that “there is,” but I don’t get the reason why. Again, especially if it’s on a tape recorder, both the instrumental or vocal notes are coming from the same source (the tape recorder) and so there should therefore be no difference.
Let’s say, for example, that there is a wonderful recreation of Ozzy Osbourne’s “crazy train” in MIDI files. It is not instrumental, but it is not vocal either. So would it be permitted to listen to? If not, what is the difference between that and a recorded a capella singer? Both of them can hit the same notes, and both of them have a pleasing sound. So unless there’s some kind of halacha l’moshe misinai that human vocals are not considered music, the distinction still doesn’t make sense to me.
<<“But it’s music!” they reply. Ah, but it’s not the same thing.>>
That’s because Britney Spears (certainly not music in any stretch of the imagination, or at least mine) and the Rolling Stones advertise themselves as artists who use instruments in their performances, and that is part of what those particular groups are supposed to do. If, however, I went to a chazzanus concert, or I heard a great chazzan davening at shul, I would be perfectly satisfied. I would have no more enjoyment from, say, a great oboe player than I would from a good chazzan.
“Halacha l’Moshe miSinai” is a bit much. Do we need a halacha l’Moshe miSinai to tell us that water is not wine or that dogs are not cats? Singing is singing and music is music. Singing is musicAL just like dogs and cats are both funny housepets and wine and water are both beverages, but they’re not identical.
According to whose definition is singing not music? If you look in any ordinary dictionary, or ask any music theorist, they will tell you that both music played by an instrument and music made from human vocal shords are “music.”
A dog is not a cat because the genetic makeup up a cat is signifantly different from that of a dog. Wine is not water because water, by definition, is strictly a molecule made up of a single hydrogen and two oxygens whereas wine, by definition, is a drink composed of many other chemical compounds which are created in the process of ferementing grape juice. A pleasing series of sounds and tones made from any instrument in the world is categorically different from a pleasing series of sounds and tones from a human voice box because...?
